Why don't black men date black women?

The following conversation was a debate responding to these two articles.
It's something I feel passionately about which is why I'm posting it here.

Here are the articles we were responding to:
http://theybf.com/2010/06/01/chad-ocho-cinco-johnson-no-black-girls-on-my-dating-show

http://theybf.com/2010/06/07/slim-thug-talks-ish-about-black-women-is-a-publicity-slut-while-doing-so



"OKAY I'm going to try and be as uhm....academic as possible even though these type of....incidents make me want to severely hurt people, but anyway.

I don't know where to begin so I guess I'll start with those articles you posted. Situations such as these are not uncommon. I am sad to say that I have known and been with black men who openly admit they would not date black women, stating that black women were simply, "not their type." And their type? Skinny, light-skinned, long hair, shorter than them. I detested the fact that I was a "type," a category of female that was acceptable. But, whether it be my own low self esteem at the time, or my bewitched enchantment with them, I typically let it go--though I would always state that I didn't agree.

Reflecting on the matter I have come to just feel sorry for these men. Sure the statements are shallow, and hateful, and hurtful, but they all stem from their own insecurities with themselves, their skin color, their race.

They are doing what they need to do to be accepted as members in American society. These actions against black women are symptoms of the internalized racism that pollutes the lifeblood of this country. If they were to "be with" a black woman, however that may be, they'd forever be black. By "being with" light skinned women they are somehow elevated, better than black, moving up in society.

Why black men more than black women? Well that could be because black men have already increasingly been accepted into the higher ranks of society. Athletes, actors, rappers, singers; black men have really begun to make a name for themselves in our culture. Black women on the other hand...have not seen so successful.
All popular and successful black women are, for the most part, are exploited--seen as sexual objects rather than equal human beings to men. This mars the reputation of black women as a whole. They have no real voice in the media.
Think about it--how many famous females can you think of that aren't sexualized in some way or another? Even in the case of the Madea plays and movies, that encourage women to be their own person, we must take pause because they are written and acted out by a man.

Until black women can share similar successes in the media and society as black men without being hyper-sexualized black men will always rank higher than black women and feel more entitled to assimilate into society.

This is all just theory and speculation of course as I have not done any research but am quite a silent observer. :) It also helps that I'm not bound to any one race so everything to me is very objective.

As for the issue of the "black woman's attitude" I think that's just a load of bullshit. Oh excuse me, I was keeping this academic, wasn't I?

If women of color (and I'm making this more general now because hispanic women are accused of having attitude problems as well, but since we are more accepted by society we get away with it just a little bit easier) have an attitude, I blame impoverished communities. Think about the neighborhoods most people of color are in. Generally speaking, we don't typically break the upper-middle class layer, do we? I mean, let's be honest now, okay? In impoverished, urban communities women are made targets of DAILY. If we have attitudes or a low bullshit tolerance it's because we HAVE TO in order to SURVIVE. Women who aren't strong-willed and opinionated get hurt and taken advantage of period. Being a good girl is not rewarded in these communities, in fact it is punished. Maybe I am speaking to generally here, but from my own experience I can honestly say being the bad bitch over the good wife is the only way to preserve yourself--and your sanity.

In any case, why is this something that we are discouraging in young women? What is this the 1950's? Cook, clean, and take care of you? What are women now expected to be Stepford Wives now? Dear Slim Thug, why don't you go suck that sick dick and call it a day okay, you sexist, misogynist, limp dick mother fucker. (So much for keeping this academic)

Ladies, ladies, ladies, of course they want you to tune your attitude down--they're scared! Women are mentally stronger than men, always have been and they know it--that's why women have been oppressed for so long. Now if women start speaking their minds and standing up for their rights and resisting control, how ever are the men going to stay in power?

Power.

This issue is one I think may even be truer than assimilation. Men subconsciously or consciously desire power, I believe it's in their nature--though I could be wrong. Black men have it rough because they don't have many opportunities for power in this society. So, it is not so unreasonable to believe that they'd want to be the one in power in their relationships---and being with a strong woman doesn't really leave much of a chance at being the one in control.

Power is probably also the reason why black women are so, stereotypically speaking, loud. Their pride, their voices, their confidence--this is the only sure fire way a black woman can obtain power.

Go for it girls, I say. Though I'd like to stress there is a fine line between confidence and belligerence and I'd really wish more people were aware of that--but that's a different topic all together.

I'd also like to say that people of color, in general, need to really stop picking on each other and stand together--especially in the black community. Together we stand, divided we fall--why can't we get this through our thick skulls? Stop judging people because they are lighter or darker skinned. Stop thinking you know somebody based on where they're from, or how they dress, or how they talk, you don't. These superficial judgments are killing allies and delaying change. Just fucking quit it already.

OH and on a personal non-academic note, I think everyone should date people a different race than them anyway because mixed people are the future of the planet. There won't BE any black or white or purple in a few more generations.

Yeah. I'm the shit."






Some guy said something about not wanting to deal with black women because they don't want to better themselves and they all have babies and they're all on welfare and they're too much drama............and then ended by saying that black women are queens or some shit.

So...

"That's another thing that pisses me off. All these men saying they respect women and treasure women and in the same sentence degrade them. It has become so natural to be prejudice against women people aren't even conscious of doing it."

Then he tried to correct himself by saying "most"

So....

"I think by even saying "most blacks" this or "most blacks" that you are still victim blaming; it is also focusing on a symptom of a much larger, much more dangerous problem. It IS the government. It IS the education system. It IS the culture. The media. The society. The very way we are brought up to think. It is all that. Internalized ... See Moreracism is so deeply embedded into our psyches that we don't even realize it's there. Whites don't have to openly oppress people of color anymore because we so openly and willingly do it to ourselves--especially by using statements like "most blacks blahblahblah, but not me."

Let me try to break this down category by category.

It is the government's fault because in the past the government aided IN the oppression of people of color and has done little in the present to make up for that. Then when they DO establish programs and resources to make amends for that fact, such as HEOP, EOP, and other such programs, they ABANDON THEM and neglect them in favor of putting their money towards war; killing over creating, wealth over human prosperity.
In addition to that the government does little to close the economic gap between the rich and the poor. In fact, it's support of big business over the small timers aids in the increasing separation of financial classes; the rich just keep getting richer and the poor just keep getting poorer.

It is the education system's fault because they know people are going to slip through the cracks yet they allow it, deeming those that are studious and accomplished "worthy," and anyone who fails losers, failures, worthless. The entire education system as a whole from K - College is in desperate need of revamping. Time and time again the methods of teaching that are used in schools are proven obsolete and ineffective yet they are used anyway. Why?
Everyone knows the education system is an utter failure. It doesn't take much for the everyday person to see it, so why can't the government see it? Why can't the high ups see it? The answer is that they DO. They know it doesn't work and they set us up for failure.
The sad honest truth is that they WANT us to stay dumb. This is the way it has been throughout history. The uneducated are easy to rule over, to control, the educated and opinionated--not so much. This goes back to my argument over power and shutting down the confident black woman. The gov doesn't want to deal with people who can think critically, analyze situations, and formulate their own opinions. They just want to play the role of herder, while we act as the sheep.

Many men of color start college, but few actually finish it. Whereas the number of women attending and completing college increases every year. So maybe someone would like to retract that little comment about "most" black women not wanting to get educated and better themselves, HMM?

It is ESPECIALLY the media's fault because it brainwashes us daily with blatant racist material. Think about it. How many ways are white people portrayed? How many different personalities can they have? Appearances can they have? Positions can they have? Indeed, there is no one representation of whites. There is no white caricature. Now look at the representation of blacks and other minorities. How many different ways do they get portrayed? How many different personality types do they have? How often are they perpetuated is ignorant, uneducated, short tempered, aggressive, on the outskirts, of the law, and the butt of jokes that undermine their intelligence? I tell you it's more often than whites. And we as the audience have learned to accept it because we have been made to believe that that's "just how black people are." Well...if white people aren't just one way, why should we be made to believe that black people are? Why are whites allowed complex multidimensional personalities and lives, while blacks can be summed up in a few sentences?
There is no other word to describe it except as brainwashing. And to make statements like "most blacks" without looking at the situation critically from all angles accept your mental scrubbing.
It's hard to say cut out the media, but I just wish people would be more wary.

It is the people's fault too, but I am not so prepared to really blame them because--how could you teach yourself something you yourself have never learned? So this is tough ground to tread on. It is certainly the fault of the educated who turn their noses on their people and their communities once they get out rather than go back and educate others. We are at war. Not many people realize this, but we are at war. Our minds, our future's, our children's futures--all of this is at stake. We must band together. We must fight together. Like I said before, stop blaming each other. Saying the problem is someone else's and separating yourself apart from it you are setting yourself, and others like you, up for failure. WE HAVE TO STICK TOGETHER. WE HAVE TO. Nobody puts blacks down better than other blacks! The fact that black men refuse black women is HARD EVIDENCE of this fact! WHY? Blacks are only hurting themselves by doing this. Only exposing their own self hatred and prejudices. Only dooming themselves. I said it before and I'll say it again; united we stand, divided we fall. Stop turning your back on your people. Stop judging them. Accept them as you wish to be accepted. We need to lift our people up, not knock them down further. This dog-eat-dog mentality plagues and kills the black community. The black community needs to learn to be just that--A COMMUNITY, a union of people who care about and support each other!

There is absolutely NO justification for black men to disregard and degrade black women. NONE. NEVER. It's hypocritical to want to fight for equality and then turn around and oppress someone else. It's pure bullshit plane and simple and, though I may have grudgingly tolerated in the past when I was young and stupid, I can never and well never accept it ever again.

I may have jested before about races mixing, but I mean it seriously. Black women. If you are unhappy you should never have to settle for someone just because they are available and your race. You doom yourself to a sad future. You're worth more and if a man can't understand that (not just a black man, any man), then look for someone better. There are men of worth out there, you just need to look with colorblind eyes. There are men out there who don't just SAY they respect women and SAY that women are worth more, their thoughts and actions follow through with every statement. It's hard to distinguish those that "say" from those that "do," but they're there.
Try not to a let events from the past or prejudices bitter your judgment though. Have faith in people. Trust a little. Give people a chance. You will get hurt, true, but you will also allow yourself the chance to find true love.
Hiding, hating, guarding yourself, that's easy--especially if you've been hurt before. But going out there, trusting, loving, letting go--that's hard. Be strong. Everything worth having in life calls for a fight.

And I know good men exist because I have one of the best ♥ XD"





I'd like to add a little disclaimer. I, to, make the mistake of overgeneralizing in this debate. The issues addressed, I believe, have more to do with privilege and socio-economic status than they do to race. I also admit that in the heat of the moment I played a little tit-for-tat about black men and black women.

I am actually a very big advocate for the rights of men of colour as well.

As I mentioned this issue isn't it's own problem.. It's a symptom of a greater more deadly problem.